Oct 11

rapey locker-room talk?

Though we tend to stay out of politics here at Hall of The Black Dragon, I found it prudent to address the brand new go-to excuse for predatory language–in regards to women–the now trending term of Locker-Room Talk. As someone that has played, fought, and bonded with other men in sports, martial arts, and lifting weights, it really annoys me that I am being generally lumped in with douchebags that think taking a kiss, or taking a grope is cool.

Let’s be honest. Men of my age (GenX) have never been the pinnacle of Beta perfection that is pushed as ideal in this modern age. We objectify women unapologetically, we are crude, and we tend to be very stubborn about changing any of that. In a high school locker-room with other males, we tend to clown one another, when we weren’t clowning, or being clowned we talked about the game. When a girl is the subject, she would 100% be objectified, but if there’s a guy bragging about “grabbing the pussy,” or “taking a kiss,” he pretty much stands out on his own.

…there is a line and that is way past it…

This isn’t to say that predators don’t find company in weaker males, and soft friends that want their approval, but in my experience, having been in locker-rooms, we don’t get down like that. To be honest with you, that sort of language creeps me out to the point where I start to give a man the side glance. A man that is taking kisses (which we are all scolded not to do as little boys) and grabbing pussy, is scary! Do you hear me? A dude who says that is deaf to “no means no,” and would probably take it from a passed out girl, or slip something into a woman’s drink. Not saying that they all would do this, but that’s how I categorize THAT particular dude. I love sports, and I love manly sh-t, but there is a line and that is way past it.

What DO Men Talk About In A Locker-room?

It doesn’t take a locker-room for men to objectify women. Just be attractive and walk on by and someone is going to make a comment that leads to more comments about your looks. Let’s be clear, there are tons of women–and men–who will lazily take this and turn it into, “well what’s the difference?” but there’s a huge difference between saying “damn, did you see those legs?” and saying “last night when I went out with that chick, she just let me grab the pussy.” Whoa! Blow the whistle, hold-up, stop…

But Greg, what if it’s a dude that’s just putting himself over, wanting to feel like the man and bragging about something that never really happened?

That’s a fair question, dudes do tend to be full of sh-t when kissing and telling, but lets consider a few hints, shall we? Most men brag about how much a woman comes on to them, if not that, then they brag about their talk game, how they were so cool that the woman did this and did that… Not how, they grabbed this and that and she “let” them do it.

Again, I cannot sit here and say that THAT particular individual does not exist in any locker-rooms, but I have yet to meet an athlete or former athlete to cosign this as the norm. It is NOT locker-room talk, it’s douchebag talk, and they don’t need a locker-room to do it! 

Leave Men in General Out of Your Mess

Making this rapey level of conversation a general man thing–because lets face it, that’s what they’re doing–does no good for any of us. I’m a man, I subjectively/objectively find women attractive, and I have said as much–and posted here–about it. This does not make me a predator, a wannabe predator, or a soon-to-be predator, it makes me a certain type of guy. Part of the reason we started this site to discuss the topics that we do is due to the numerous blogs that have sprung up in recent years that lump all men into a category of rape. It’s lazy and it’s unfair and it’s 100% untrue. Most of us love and care for our mothers, daughters, wives and significant others… hard to believe, but there it is.

Please, don’t fall for the okey doke, this isn’t a locker-room banter type of thing. The funniest thing about this excuse is that it is being made by people whose only knowledge of a locker-room is what they see on ESPN. It’s a stupid generalization that isn’t worthy of the athletes that will no doubt get the heat for a douchebag’s rape talk–as if professional sports needs any more heat. Keep our thing out of your mouth, please, this isn’t who I am and it isn’t any of the men that I personally know.

Last point: If you are a guy, or a woman with a guy that defends any level of language that hints at “taking it” from a woman, I can’t cosign you, and I’ll probably need you to stay a jab’s distance away from any woman in my life. I don’t agree with it, and like I said, even as a high schooler I found it creepy.

See some words or phrases that you don't understand? Check out The Dragon's Lexicon.
  • Willy Donuts

    Spot On. Locker Room talk is not meant degrade women or promote rape culture. Same for the military, men talk, but when someone crosses the line, we check them.

    • Rob

      I threw up a little when you said “rape culture”.

      • Willy Donuts

        Coughing up that “red pill”?

      • Rob

        That doesn’t make sense. I’m criticizing your casual use of the word “rape culture”. Logically, it would be the “blue pill” that I’m coughing up. “A” for effort though… you almost made a funny, Little Willy.

    • Lanie

      I wonder how men would feel if they were objectified or constantly spoken of as being emasculated because they aren’t rich nor do they have a high level of education/great career. Because basing women’s identities on their looks is analogous to women basing a man’s masculinity on how much money/education/or prestige in his career he has. Most men hate when women compliment men’s cars, homes, careers, degrees, money, or status. How would you all like it if woman objectified your bodies as being weak and having small dicks? If women did these things, all men would cry.

      • Rob

        Lanie, Every woman’s ideal man is handsome, tall, in shape, ambitious, a high earner, intelligent, socially skilled, well endowed, powerful, etc.

        Only weak men complain about women holding them accountable to those criteria.

        Women shouldn’t have to apologize for being biologically and rationally attracted to these positive characteristics in men.

        The fact is that most women don’t meet the criteria to attract that ideal man. Because those ideal men have an equally discerning (but different) set of criteria that they are judging you on.

        Weak women: overweight, overly masculine, not conventionally pretty, un-intelligent, non-domestic, etc – these women have issue with discerning men holding them to beauty standards.

        It’s ok though. There are plenty of men out there that would love to have a woman like you. You’re just going to have to compromise. Either compromise, or move yourself closer to becoming your ideal man’s ideal woman.

  • Rob

    Nah, the pinnacle of “Beta Perfection” is writing a thousand-word article criticizing a powerful man that you don’t like.

  • Lanie

    I think you’re stupid to think that being an asshole and objectifying women is what an ALPHA male does versus what a Beta male. Being beta or alpha has to do with being a leader & taking charge – not about being an asshole or not to women.

    And objectifying women upsets women-not just contributing to rape culture. It is the cause of why many women stop taking care of themselves in a relationship -because their man is gawking and objectifying other women. The woman feels: ” Why should I dress up or take care of myself if my man is eyeing other women?”

    • Rob

      Women stop taking care of themselves because they get content in their relationship, their man is kind of a loser and know he can’t find anything better, and they weren’t even that sexually attracted to him in the first place.

      After the initial flame dies, they end up feeling anxious, stressed, bored, alone, and depressed. On top of all of this, women’s bodies are already biologically programmed to easily accumulate extra body fat…

      Add to top of the heap that 90% of women NEVER exert themselves physically, live a completely sedentary lifestyle, and eat terribly – and you get a culture full of chunky women.

  • Lanie

    When men objectify women, it causes a lot of jealousy and self-esteem issues in his female intimate companion, which slowly erodes her desire for sex with him. Imagine if you, as man, has to hear about another guy’s muscles, tall height, “wonder if he has a big dick”, nice ass constantly. Would you desire that woman or respect her? You’d think she was a sex addict hoe. Well, this is how women feel when they hear men constantly talk about women’s looks. It’s as if he has insatiable desires. No woman wants to be with a guy like that.

  • Champ E. Onsown

    Athletes get a lotta bitches so it’s easy for them to draw a line and pick and choose when to be PC. The rest of us don’t have that luxury so we talk shxt about bitches to compensate. If you’re a cool dude that has chicks, good for you, don’t spoil the fun the rest of us find in objectifying bitches. We don’t have much else.